Vicki wrote:

pdmike,

Thanks for clarification on the lung disorder.  The reason I defined OSA is because a lot of people think it is a lung disorder and call it that when it is not.  So you do have a separate lung disorder.  Can I ask you what it is?  That can also have an effect on how your OSA is treated.  For example, with some lung disorders, COPD, for example, APAPs are generally not used.  The algorithms for APAPs were developed for normal breathing patterns and flow rates and people with COPD do not have normal breathing patterns and flow rates.

Vicki

The lung problem is hard to define - I have tried to do so to a number of different doctors and generally all I get is that pleasant, but totally blank, stare that says, "yes?" when I am done.  

The best way I know to describe it is, have you ever lived where there is smog?  Really bad smog?  I live in Los Angeles.  It's nowhere near as bad now as it was thirty or forty years ago, but we still have it to some degree.  On a really smoggy day, if you are outside, your lungs feel it.  That's all I can say.  They just feel it.  That's how my lungs feel when this lung problem is going on - only there is no smog.

It is a "tight" feeling that seems to worsen at the end of a spoken sentence, causing me to feel as though I have to cough at the end of a spoken sentence.  Coughing clears it up momentarily, but it always comes back.

I have suspected emphysema, asthma, allergy, household mold, and, of course, my personal favorite and I'm sure yours as well - lung cancer.  I saw my pulmonologist and the first thing he did was order a CT scan.  It came back clean, thank God, so lung cancer isn't it.  He gave me a breathing test and ruled out all of the other suspects as well.

The problem is not always with me.  I had it three years ago for several months and then it went away.  Things were fine until several months ago and then it came back.  It seems to come on when my weight is up, and go away when my weight is down, causing my wife to think it has to do with fatty tissue pressing downard on vital organs when I am standing or sitting in a vertical position.  Perhaps this is it.  Three years ago, my weight was up.  Then I lost weight, whcih I kept off for three years.  Several months ago, a few (ahem) stray pounds began to sneak back in - what can I say?

Anyway, that's it.  Present course of treatment?  Lose weight.  My pulmo says he thinks the lung problem will clear up with a combintion of treatment for sleep apnea, acid reflux and losing weight.  We'll see . . .

Edit Note: The lung problem does not affect my breathing.  I breathe normally.

xxStar wrote:

let us know how the humidifier works out, and if you used the lowest setting for more comfort.

Good news and bad news!  The good news is, I awoke this morning with NO dizziness.  I was really worried about that, so am very glad to be able to navigate normally once again.

The bad news has to do with the humidifier.  I maybe need to start a whole new thread on the subject of this little bad boy.  I guess I don't know how to work my humidifier properly.  I tried it again for the second time last night.  This time, I read the instructions - a novel concept, but, hey, I'll try anything at this point.

Anyway, I located the max line and filled it to that level with distilled water.  I put the water contained into the connected humidifier and closed the lid.  I set the level to one, rather than three.  I then hooked up and turned the sucker on.  Almost immediately, I can hear the sound of water sucking up, into the tube.  This is a major, water sucking sound - not something insignificant.  It was so loud that it would have kept me awake all on its own, never mind the water coming through the tube and splurping out all over my nose.  So I shut her down and went without it.

I have used my unit for five nights now, almost entirely without the humidifier.  I only suffered with dry mouth/throat one time, and that wasn't all that bad.  The rest of the time, I seem to be able to get along OK without it.

Thoughts?

pdmike wrote:

xxStar wrote:

let us know how the humidifier works out, and if you used the lowest setting for more comfort.

Good news and bad news!  The good news is, I awoke this morning with NO dizziness.  I was really worried about that, so am very glad to be able to navigate normally once again.

The bad news has to do with the humidifier.  I maybe need to start a whole new thread on the subject of this little bad boy.  I guess I don't know how to work my humidifier properly.  I tried it again for the second time last night.  This time, I read the instructions - a novel concept, but, hey, I'll try anything at this point.

Anyway, I located the max line and filled it to that level with distilled water.  I put the water contained into the connected humidifier and closed the lid.  I set the level to one, rather than three.  I then hooked up and turned the sucker on.  Almost immediately, I can hear the sound of water sucking up, into the tube.  This is a major, water sucking sound - not something insignificant.  It was so loud that it would have kept me awake all on its own, never mind the water coming through the tube and splurping out all over my nose.  So I shut her down and went without it.

I have used my unit for five nights now, almost entirely without the humidifier.  I only suffered with dry mouth/throat one time, and that wasn't all that bad.  The rest of the time, I seem to be able to get along OK without it.

Thoughts?

I'm sure you've mentioned at some point in this thread, but what kind of machine do you have? Those kind of noises that you mention can come from not having the humidifier lid closed tightly -- mine has to really *snap* not just close.  How about filling less full --I use only a half tank each night on a setting of 4? How about taking it back to your DME and asking what's the matter with the humidifier? It really shouldn't be making all that noise and slurping water onto your nose!! IMHO if humidity has fixed your dizzyness problem, then you need to get the humidifier working properly to get your therapy in gear.

Mike,

I live near LA as well.  If you are on the East side, I feel majorly for you.  I try not to breathe at all when I go through Redlands because the smog is so bad at the base of the mountains where it all backs up.

I know some very good sleep docs. in LA.  I am down the 101 a bit towards Ventura and I am seeing the best allergist I have ever seen.  He doesn't think anywhere near the box and is also on staff at UCLA.  If you want someone who will look at things from a very different angle, PM me and I'll give you his contact info.

Vicki


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Von Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

jessy 49 wrote:

I'm sure you've mentioned at some point in this thread, but what kind of machine do you have? Those kind of noises that you mention can come from not having the humidifier lid closed tightly -- mine has to really *snap* not just close.  How about filling less full --I use only a half tank each night on a setting of 4? How about taking it back to your DME and asking what's the matter with the humidifier? It really shouldn't be making all that noise and slurping water onto your nose!! IMHO if humidity has fixed your dizzyness problem, then you need to get the humidifier working properly to get your therapy in gear.

The dizziness only lasted one day (yesterday).  I was OK this morning when I woke up.  I did not use the humidifier last night, as previously stated.

My unit is a ResMed VPAP S "Positive Airway Pressure Device."  The humidifier is a ResMed
H4i "Heated Humidifier."

Now that I think about it, you may be onto something.  This gurgling sound was so out of line that it could well have been caused by a lid not fully closed.  I am still not very familiar with the darn thing.  I'll check that aspect of it tonight and possibly try it again.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Vicki wrote:

Mike,

I live near LA as well.  If you are on the East side, I feel majorly for you.  I try not to breathe at all when I go through Redlands because the smog is so bad at the base of the mountains where it all backs up.

I know some very good sleep docs. in LA.  I am down the 101 a bit towards Ventura and I am seeing the best allergist I have ever seen.  He doesn't think anywhere near the box and is also on staff at UCLA.  If you want someone who will look at things from a very different angle, PM me and I'll give you his contact info.

Vicki

East side it is - San Gabriel Valley, actually.  When we get smog, the SGV is one of the major places it hits, as I'm sure you know.

I would appreciate a referral, just in case this lung thing doesn't clear up.  I'll PM ya.

Thanks.

Mike

I too have increasing dizziness in the morning.  I have used CPAP for 6 weeks now.  I monitor and record my AHI every morning  and there had been no improvement.  I set the humidifier at 2 (Resmed Elite II), but in the morning, all the water still seem to be there in the humidifier tub.  I can't increase the humidifier setting because of rain-out.  This is even with a ResMed hose cover.  My medics seem to be not that interested in my problems.  I am a scientist and my cognitive skills have seriously impeded due to dizziness and inability to focus.  I am trying to hold in to to the job until this improves.   I don't think I am in position to change doctors: my CPAP is on loan for 3 months until I prove compliance,  my insurance covers 1 sleep study for life and it is done.

Mike,
Gargling sound is almost certainly due to water accumulating in the hose.  When I get this I get up and lift the hose in a way that water flows back to humidifier tub.  I have the CPAP/Humidifier on night table and the hose put over the headboard of the bed.   There is a loop where water gets accumulated.   If the humidifier lid is open you will hear a much different air hushing sound.  (Try switching CPAP on with lid open.)

atzz

atzz wrote:

I too have increasing dizziness in the morning.  I have used CPAP for 6 weeks now.  I monitor and record my AHI every morning  and there had been no improvement.  I set the humidifier at 2 (Resmed Elite II), but in the morning, all the water still seem to be there in the humidifier tub.  I can't increase the humidifier setting because of rain-out.  This is even with a ResMed hose cover.  My medics seem to be not that interested in my problems.  I am a scientist and my cognitive skills have seriously impeded due to dizziness and inability to focus.  I am trying to hold in to to the job until this improves.   I don't think I am in position to change doctors: my CPAP is on loan for 3 months until I prove compliance,  my insurance covers 1 sleep study for life and it is done.

How do you monitor and record your AHI?  And what is an AHI?  (I am getting snowed by all of the acronyms that are thrown around here with total familiarity by everyone except me.   )  Is there a link that explains all of the acronyms that are used in connection with sleep apnea?

My dizziness was only there one day.  However, I am still (6 days into it) experiencing a strange, kind of "spaced" feeling during the day.  I suspect it is caused by lack of sleep.  I do wake up a number of times during the night, although, since I got the humidifier working properly, that problem seems to be improving somewhat.

Sounds like you have a bunch of cheap jerks for an insurance company.  Me too.

By now you may have figured out a solution, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I overfilled my tank the first night I used my CPAP, and I also have the gurlgling noise in the hose. Depending on the length/angle to your face of the hose, if the tank was overfilled, you could also get water on your face, I would think.

I'm smart about some things, but not about "equipment." Still can't adjust my chair at work, after 8 years. So the CPAP set up and disassembly and cleaning each day (simple stuff, but not really easy for me initially) was a little scary. Typical for me, I didn't notice a fill-line on the humidifier water chamber the first night and filled it to the top and had the girgling. Looked more closely the next night and figured it out.

Simple "cause/effect" suggestion here, I know, but it may appeal to your scientific mind and your newness with the equipment.

Hope I've helped someone; best regards,

Vicki wrote:

Weight contributes to OSA, but it is usually the anatomy of our throats that cause it.  Losing weight usually will not cure OSA, but will allow the pressure required to open your airway to be decreased.

Vicki - You have made my day!!! I've been so depressed since my diagnosis a week and a half ago. I am overweight and need to lose weight (no denying that), but I'm not a huge girl or anything. All my doctor said was "lose weight. lose weight. lose weight." He rushed through the appt and told me that it would basically go away if I lose weight. Every single person I've told that I have sleep apnea and that it's weight-related is shocked (including my mother-in-law who is a nurse). Five of my 6 apneas were central (he didn't even tell me I had central apneas -- I saw this on my report -- diagnosis is OSA). Can those be weight-related?

Sorry, that I used terms that are new to you Mike.  I was like to you 6 weeks ago.  All I know, I learned in this forum.

Here is a link to terminology.

http://sleepapneafaq.wikispaces.com/Sleep+Definitions

Basically AHI (Apnea Hypopnea Index) is number of times you stop breathing (apnea) or half-way stop breathing (hypopnea) per hour.

- Atzz

Anatomy of the throat, and possibly the jaw.

My dentist, who is a DMD that teaches at St. Louis University School of Dentistry, said she often sees the apnea a lot in women, who have smaller jaws than men anyway, and in men with smaller jaws and have had their wisdom teeth pulled. Over time, the jaw in the back by the throat "atrophies," and combined with loose skin on soft palate, other possible issues of anatomy of throat (larger tonsils, etc.), age that creates "flabbiness," even in the palate, weight gain, which puts fat in the neck area and narrows the space there, plus the normal relaxation of the throat area while sleeping ALL contribute to the situation.

Obviously, losing weight is one of the things we can do to see if that helps. May be other issues we can't fix with diet; I wasn't overweight when I started snoring LOUD-LY in late teens/early 20s, in fact was called "Twiggy," then, a few years after having all four wisdom teeth pulled. What my dentist says makes a lot of sense to me.

I wasn't thrilled to be diagnosed w/ mild apnea, but it's better to know and treat the condition than the health problems that come from not knowing/treating. It took me a year and a half to actually USE my CPAP after I got it (talk about resistance!), but I'm three weeks into treatment, and things are going just fine, after an initial adjustment to using it at night.

I think I am sleeping better; no major JOLT of energy as other friends of mine have noticed in their treatment, but I am seeing more follow through on things I start, which indicates more physical and mental energy. I am middle-aged now and a little over weight at this point, and I also have been planning my meals, making out my grocery lists, and taking my lunch to work for the last two weeks---puts me more in control of my nutrition and my spending vs. eating less healthy lunches out every day and the expense with it. I'm sure I will keep using my CPAP, and I have my first follow-up appt. with the prescribing doctor on 7/7/09. I am going to ask him for a second round in the sleep lab to have my dentist fit me with an oral appliance for travel, as I go overseas for my job and don't want to have to drag the CPAP with me to Asia, deal with the electrical current issues there, etc. I'd like to be able to sleep 18 hrs. on the flight over/back without snoring, and can't use the CPAP on the plane.

MsWellRested,

Check with your PAPs manufacturere, but most automatically adjust to country differences in electircal supplies.  All you usually have to do is buy adapter plugs because the outlets are a different shape.


maf79

I don't want to hijack the topic of this thread, but to quickly answer your question, since centrals apneas are neurological in nature and due to the brain not sending a signal to breathe, it is very difficult for me to see how physiologically that could be influenced in any way by weight.  If you learn differently from your doctors, let me know.  BTW, are you seeing a physician who is accredited in sleep medicine?  If not, find one near you by contacting the folks at www.abms.org.

Vicki


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Von Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

MsWellRested wrote:

By now you may have figured out a solution, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I overfilled my tank the first night I used my CPAP, and I also have the gurlgling noise in the hose. Depending on the length/angle to your face of the hose, if the tank was overfilled, you could also get water on your face, I would think.

I'm smart about some things, but not about "equipment." Still can't adjust my chair at work, after 8 years. So the CPAP set up and disassembly and cleaning each day (simple stuff, but not really easy for me initially) was a little scary. Typical for me, I didn't notice a fill-line on the humidifier water chamber the first night and filled it to the top and had the girgling. Looked more closely the next night and figured it out.

Simple "cause/effect" suggestion here, I know, but it may appeal to your scientific mind and your newness with the equipment.

Hope I've helped someone; best regards,

Actually, I hadn't totally figured it out until your comment.  I knew it (the gurgling sound and water accumulting in the nasal pillows) had something to do with my not using the humidifier properly, but I didn't know what I was doing wrong.  I was filling it too full of water.  The only time this happened was when I had it all the way up to the fill line.  I guess that's a little too full.  Someone suggested only going half way.  Once I did that, the problem never came up again.

Now, I am using my humidifier every night with no problems.  I think the humidifier makes it much easier for me to use my SDM (I love acronyms and have invented one for my machine.  It is: SDM for Sleep Deprivation Machine.  Just kidding . . . I think . . . )

Thanks for your comments.  Love that screen name, by the way.