So I went for a sleep study 2 weeks ago. Mine is supposedly a Mild form of this so called illness. My thought is that this is just another way for the insurance companies and MD offices to get even more money out of gullible people. If any of you can suggest a way for me to try and believe this is real and not something that just came about a few years ago to milk more and more money out of people. I dont believe in this and told wife that after 5 mins of attempting to wear the nose mask and chinstrap that she may as well return the machine to her work,(she works for a in-home healthcare company), This caused one major fight and I just dont want to wear anything to sleep. Ever dealt with this?

Thanks

Wow Sarge, where to start??!!

Yes, I do feel this is real, I can only speak for me and DO understand where you are coming from.  I used to fear sleeping, thought I was a crazy person.  There were times when I did not sleep a wink for 2-3 day in a row.  Complete and utter exhaustion entailed.  I was treated for depression, high blood pressure and anxiety.  When I did manage to fall asleep I would have a recurring dream that I was drowning, falling and unable to breath.

This went on for MANY years.  I only discovered my "illness" by chance as I drove one day to the docs office for yet another, "what is wrong with me session" and on the way I fell asleep at a red light it was only momentary but scared me when the driver behind me honked as the light had changed.  Once in the office I picked up a magazine and opened it to the article entitled, "Have You Ever Fallen Asleep at a Red Light".  Wow, I looked around to see if it was some sort of cosmic joke.

I read the article and as I finished my name was called, so I asked the doc if I could be screened.  She agreed and I got in within a week and WOW was that I good thing.  I was in the severe range and the doc when he spoke with me stressed that this was killing me.  In my case, sadly I took too long to get that needed diagnosis and will most likely always suffer some degree of cognitive loss.  I am hopeful that I will continue to make strides but there are those individuals that just can't regain what was lost from years of oxygen deprivation.

Are there "flavors of the month in medicine"?  Yes, most definitely I agree with you there.  Are there "quacks" ready to jump on the next lucrative wagon? Absolutely.  I am certain that with the popping up of sleep centers in medical communities around the country that is would lead one to believe that this too is just another way to generate monies.  And I am certain that irreparable people are there to rake in their share of that money.

BUT ask yourself this:

Why did you go in the first place?

Do you wake up every morning refreshed and ready to meet a new day?

Are you ever sleepy when you have "slept" long enough?

Does your mood seem to be sharp and offensive to others?

If any of these describe you then it is time to take a step back and think about what you are really thinking.

I have yet to meet anyone that was thrilled to be diagnosed with any disorder but I have met countless others that are thrilled to find out that there is help out there.  I too was afraid of the machine and NEVER thought I could sleep a wink with it, now I can't imagine NOT using it.

So, in closing (sorry so long) just give yourself some time.  The machine isn't that big, let it sit a bit and find out why it is necessary that it be removed from your house.  When no one is watching spend some time wearing the mask and getting used to it.  Remember if your wife didn't care she wouldn't be there encouraging you.  

Just something to think about.  Post here anytime you will find lots of support.  Thanks for your post.


_________________
~ElleMarie~ One day at a time......are you kidding me?.....sometimes it's just one minute at a time.

Jun 2007 AHI 100.7 started cpap at 9** Oct 2007-11** April 2009 Bipap-15/10
Respironics auto M w/ Optilife nasal pillows

You must of had a sleep study for a reason.  It sounds like your wife loves you very much.  The effects of untreated sleep apnea are below  There are literally millions of people that have it and thousand of peer reviewed medical studies on it.  Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) is not an illness, it is a sleep disorder.  Your airway collapses when you sleep.  It doesn't mean you are weak, it means you have an anatomical issue.
The Cardiovascular and Metabolic Effects of OSA

The effects of untreated sleep apnea are severe and systemic.  Some of them are; increased blood pressure, increased risk of heart attack and stroke (from the constant cycling in and out of hypoxia and increased blood pressure), heart arrhythmias, nocturia (because the increased pressure in the right heart ventricle makes the body think there is too much blood volume so urine is produced), headaches (probably from the hypoxia), fatigue (duh), memory and concentration problems, weight gain (sleep deprivation causes weight gain for several physiological reasons, one being the alteration of the hormones leptin and ghrelin), apnea induced seizures, there is a link to diabetes, there is a link to GERD, night sweats, depression, anxiety (each apneic event is a true suffocation and elicits the "Fight or Flight" adrenalin response), Fibromyalgia-like symptoms, impotence, relationship and job issues, car accidents, etc.

As far as only trying a CPAP for only 5 minutes, do you always give something so important to your life and the life of others just 5 minutes?  People who are serious about their health give it as much time as it takes.  We have helped literally thousands of people become compliant and healthy CPAP users.  There is a fix for almost every problem.

Additionally, many people with OSA do not realize how sick they have been until they are treated and learn that the way they had been feeling was not normal.

Keep us posted on your progress or denial.  And BTW, if you decide to contnue believing it is fake (and there are hundreds like you unfortunately) know that your health will continue to degenerate and for your wife's sake, please get a good life insurance policy and let us know when you are driving.


Vicki


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Von Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

ElleMarie and Vicki, two very good answers.

Sarge, I refused treatment for over 20 years...so OSA is not new...I kick my stubborn self in the butt for not being treated  earlier. It only took a VERY scary episode of not breathing in the recovery room after surgery to get me to the sleep center. I now know some of my medical problems are related to the OSA. What a shame I let my health be affected by something that is treatable.

Give it a chance. It took me 2 weeks to find just the right mask.

Yeah, don't spend the money on a machine and accessories to go with it. Make a down payment on some land. Something like a cemetery plot would be appropriate.

Sarge99 wrote:

So I went for a sleep study 2 weeks ago. Mine is supposedly a Mild form of this so called illness. My thought is that this is just another way for the insurance companies and MD offices to get even more money out of gullible people. If any of you can suggest a way for me to try and believe this is real and not something that just came about a few years ago to milk more and more money out of people. I dont believe in this and told wife that after 5 mins of attempting to wear the nose mask and chinstrap that she may as well return the machine to her work,(she works for a in-home healthcare company), This caused one major fight and I just dont want to wear anything to sleep. Ever dealt with this?

Thanks

I know mine is real because I felt !@#! before treatment and now feel better after treatment.  *shrug*


_________________
Brian
Severe OSA
19 cmH2O
Respironics M Series Plus
F&P Forma Full Face Mask

Web, Vicki, Ellamarie, Thank you for the responses. I am taking this one day at a time. I have a very demanding job and have decided to wait till the weekend to give it another try. Violet, You can save the scare speech, I have heard them all before. My father is a heavy smoker and it doesnt work on him either. As far as the mask goes, it is just odd to have anything on my face after 34 yrs of not. I do still feel like the "illness" is for the most part a sham. Some people I am sure have it, however I believe it to be like ADD and ADHD, Just yet another excuse to sell another product, or drug or for others to not have to take any responsibility for themselves. One thing that has bugged me is that several people in my family have said a lot of this has to do with weight gain, ( I am 5'8" and now up to 250) I was 130 11 yrs ago when I got married. But I was never told about trying any kind of diet or excersie program, just to get on this "lifelong" machine and sleep. Tell me that doesn't sound the least bit fishy.

Sarge99 wrote:

Web, Vicki, Ellamarie, Thank you for the responses. I am taking this one day at a time. I have a very demanding job and have decided to wait till the weekend to give it another try. Violet, You can save the scare speech, I have heard them all before. My father is a heavy smoker and it doesnt work on him either. As far as the mask goes, it is just odd to have anything on my face after 34 yrs of not. I do still feel like the "illness" is for the most part a sham. Some people I am sure have it, however I believe it to be like ADD and ADHD, Just yet another excuse to sell another product, or drug or for others to not have to take any responsibility for themselves. One thing that has bugged me is that several people in my family have said a lot of this has to do with weight gain, ( I am 5'8" and now up to 250) I was 130 11 yrs ago when I got married. But I was never told about trying any kind of diet or excersie program, just to get on this "lifelong" machine and sleep. Tell me that doesn't sound the least bit fishy.

My doctor told me its possible for me to elinimate my CPAP by losing weight. I'm 5'3" @ 211.  In my case my first test in 2005 showed i didn't have sleep apnea (less than 5 occurances).  When i went for the test this year i just knew i would have the same outcome. But it just wasn't so. I did ask my doc about the change and he said it was due to weight increase.  190 in 2005 and 209 in July 2009 when i was tested.  (Yes i've gained 2 pounds since my test).  I think he said i would need to get down to about 160 to kiss my CPAP goodbye.  He also said he hasn't had a patient do that yet.  Maybe I'll be the first.  

Sarge maybe you need a doctor that thinks about sleep apnea differently or maybe you just need to have a conversation about the weight with your current doc.  My doc didn't just come out and say these things to me.  The conversation got started because of the questions i asked him about why i had sleep apnea.  If you can't work things out with your current doc i hope there is another one in your area you can work with.  

Good Luck and Hang In There.
CatJ

Wow, you sure quit easily!  If you think the rest of us believed that sleep apnea was the source of our problems, you're nuts.  I was poked, prodded, x-ray'd, blood-tested, blood-tested some more, and some more and some more.  I had a stress test, a nuclear stress test, a cardiogram, and then a full-blown heart catheterization.  Good news... my heart's good!~  However, my sleep apnea is severe.  Probably has been for years.

I don't believe everything I hear or read either.  But,  look at your test results.  Get full detailed copies of them and post your results here.  There are many qualified folks here who will help explain what your test results show and what that means to you.

And, with just mild sleep apnea, you have way more options than most of us.  You may be able to control it by simply losing weight.  There are multiple types of dental devices that can control mild to moderate apnea without having to use cpap.

You are just at step one of your journey to find out for yourself what your specific problems are, and what options you have to control the problems.  Take control of your own treatment.

One more thing.... those of us who require cpap treatment to breathe and sleep, we do not love our machines or our masks either. But we get the best machine we can find, we take responsibility for our treatment, we keep trying mask after mask until we find the right one for us, then we seek out ways to customize it to make it as comfortable as humanly possible.  We stay informed, we get upset and discouraged and come here for support. We keep our eyes and ears open to the latest studies out there in hopes there will be a cure.

In the meantime, we are thankful that there is a pretty simple treatment that does work.  We aren't going to die in our sleep, we aren't going to fall asleep at the wheel and kill someone, we are going to feel better every day and live our lives as best as we can... because we have a choice.  I choose to live longer and healthier at whatever small inconvenience and discomfort it costs me.

I'm pretty sure my hubby appreciates that too!


_________________
ResMed Auto Set II w/hi4 Pressure 9 - 20 EPR at 3 SleepWeaver, Mirage Micro, Liberty, FitLlife
Orig AHI 30.4 RDI 36 & RLS/PLMB

Sarge99 wrote:

( I am 5'8" and now up to 250) I was 130 11 yrs ago when I got married. But I was never told about trying any kind of diet or excersie program, just to get on this "lifelong" machine and sleep. Tell me that doesn't sound the least bit fishy.

No it doesn't.  Untreated OSA causes weight gain.  Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones, but until your OSA is treated, it is very difficult to lose the weight because of the three reasons I detailed above.  I think you are fortunate in that your OSA is supposedly mild.  For most of us, weight does not cause OSA, it simply exacerbates it.  And for us, the only thing losing weight does is to decrease our pressure requirements.  For example, I lost 20 pounds and my pressure requirement went from 14cmH2O to 9cmH2O but my AHI was still 94.

You didn't look at the clinical abstracts in the link I provided because you would have seen that there are literally thousand of peer reviewed medical research articles on the cardiovascular and metabolic (i.e. diabetes, weight gain, etc.) effects of OSA.  Obviously I post only a few representative articles, but a lit. review pulls up thousands.

So you have it backwards.  Get treated, lose the weight and then maybe you can ditch your PAP.  A competent sleep doctor is not going to keep you on a PAP if you don't need it.  My sleep doc. insists on sleep studies at least once a year because I am always having problems or changes and my treatment always needs tweaking.  I also have another sleep disorder that can only be monitored with a sleep study as well.  He and I work together to make sure I am getting the best treatment possible and his goal for me from day one has been to get my weight low enough that I don't have to use a PAP, but it isn't working that way so far.  At least I am breathing at night and I am not trashing my cardiovascular system.

My dang brother is just like you.  I FINALLY got him to get treated after YEARS of ignoring me.  His excuse was "I didn't want to admit you were right".  Arggggg.  Now he is obese and I pray daily that his cardiovascular disease will reverse so that someday soon I don't get "that call".  Not a scare tactic, just how I feel about my little brother. who I love a lot, who has lots to lose (not only weight but family, friends what he contributes to this world) and who I wish hadn't been so bullheaded and taken sibling rivalry to a new extreme.

Sarge, why did you have a sleep study?

Vicki


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Von Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

I'll admit after reading about this stuff and how the "sleep medicine" industry has swollen over the last decade, that I too suspected that it's a sham - that you could take ANYONE off the street, put them in a lab, and then tell them they have OSA.  If you like conspiracy theories, you could say that the people generating "the report" could interpret the data any way they feel, and give you a false # of apneas/hypopneas, and that this is all funded by Respironics/Resmed/etc so they can make an absolute fortune in medical equipment ($72 for a 6 foot hose? $9 for a 1 inch block of FOAM? yeh...)

HOWEVER.. I had symptoms.  I wasn't 100% healthy - my concentration and focus had been going down the toilet, my type 2 diabetes had not been getting any better despite bumping up my meds, my sex life was blah, my energy level sucked, my attitude was grouchy, and the one thing that got the doctors to DO something to find out what might be wrong - my memory started to screw up.

They checked for neurological problems first (EEG/MRI/Blood) and then wanted to check me for apnea.  5 or 6 years ago my bedpartner told me that not only do I snore like a chainsaw, I seemed to stop breathing in my sleep.  At the time I dismissed it because I felt fine.  When the neurologist mentioned apnea and what it was, that 6yr old memory came back to me.  After I did some research into the complications of long term untreated apnea, it certainly seemed to ring true to me that, even if this was an industry conspiracy to milk money by putting facehuggers on people, it MIGHT be what was causing MY problems.

So, conspiracy or not, I'm putting some trust and faith into this that it is legit and the treatment will help me.  It took me 4 months from my neurologist uttering the a-word to me finally getting my equipment, but now I have it.  Last night was night #2 of my facehugger sleeping with me, and so far I cannot state that anything has changed - but I am giving it a chance.

Your attitude is 95% of your cure.  If you don't -want- to try to see if this helps, then I believe it won't work.  You'll find excuses - mask is uncomfy, you're disturbing your bedpartner, you don't like lines on your face in the morning.. and you'll still have all of the symptoms that made you take this path to begin with.  If you -want- to rid yourself of your symptoms, you'll -want- to give something, anything, a try.. and this is as good a place as any to start.

If, after a while it still legitimately fails to work, even after you've truly given it a chance.. then pursue other options.  That's my 2c.

Sarge99 wrote:

Web, Vicki, Ellamarie, Thank you for the responses. I am taking this one day at a time. I have a very demanding job and have decided to wait till the weekend to give it another try. Violet, You can save the scare speech, I have heard them all before. My father is a heavy smoker and it doesnt work on him either. As far as the mask goes, it is just odd to have anything on my face after 34 yrs of not. I do still feel like the "illness" is for the most part a sham. Some people I am sure have it, however I believe it to be like ADD and ADHD, Just yet another excuse to sell another product, or drug or for others to not have to take any responsibility for themselves. One thing that has bugged me is that several people in my family have said a lot of this has to do with weight gain, ( I am 5'8" and now up to 250) I was 130 11 yrs ago when I got married. But I was never told about trying any kind of diet or excersie program, just to get on this "lifelong" machine and sleep. Tell me that doesn't sound the least bit fishy.

I'm sorry but I very much disagree with you.  As I said above, I felt better after treatment and this can be backed by scientific research that proves that the treatment is effective in many, many cases.  Some people have different symptoms with varying degrees of severity.  Some people don't seem to feel tired at all but the condition is very real.

Think of it from a common sense perspective.  During your titration they use scientific methods and technolgoy to monitor your sleep and observe arousals.  They basically show that in most cases, the apnea is causing your O2 levels to drop so low that your brain forces you awake to start breathing again.

Now think about nights where your sleep was interrupted several times per night.  How did you feel the next day?  I don't know about you but in my case I was waking up on average 80 times per hour.  I was not getting any deep sleep, let alone REM sleep.

I think you are being very ignorant about this.  There is a plethora of information available to you that goes into detail about the condition and it's effects on your body.  You sound extremely uninformed and looking for the excuse of it being a sham so you don't have to accept treatment.

Lastly, weight loss may reduce your OSA but it seems that in many cases, does not eliminate it.  You should lose weight but that doesn't mean it will cure your OSA.


_________________
Brian
Severe OSA
19 cmH2O
Respironics M Series Plus
F&P Forma Full Face Mask

Sarge.........YEAH!!!!! you are going to give it another try!!  I commend you.  I know it is hard to face this and you are doing it.......wow.  Sorry for the cheerleading!! I live a boring life so I cheer where I can.

My hubby has an important job too and it is way stressful.  He is a nuclear chemist and runs a dept that is responsible for the welfare of the public so I get the stressful, need your sleep thing.

It is wise to wait for the weekend when you feel that you will have better control.  For me I found that sitting at the computer and wearing my mask helped me to get used to it in a non-threatening way.  My hubby and I HATE that life has changed a bit since cpap but actually our fear was way worse than our reality.  About the only thing that matters to us now is that the exhalation port blows cool air on the other one.  We just pull our sheets up a little closer!!

Please keep us posted.  Yeah! (sorry just had to slip one more in there)


_________________
~ElleMarie~ One day at a time......are you kidding me?.....sometimes it's just one minute at a time.

Jun 2007 AHI 100.7 started cpap at 9** Oct 2007-11** April 2009 Bipap-15/10
Respironics auto M w/ Optilife nasal pillows

Thanks Elle, I really do want something to work. More ppl that I know personally have one of these and say its the best thing to happen to them. My main points against it are that I am embarrassed that I have it (wife has been instructed to hide machine and mask from company and deny I use one), the feeling of trying to get used to it, and me not being sexually appealing to her while wearing it. My job is no where near as stressful as I am sure a nuclear chemist is, ( I am an exterminator with over 600 customers to make happy), but it is to me. I tried it last night for about 3 1/2 hrs. I took it off at 3am when my daughter came to the room with a bad dream and just forgot to put it back on. I am going to try and go all night tonight.

First, there is no reason to be ashamed at all.  Do you hide your other medications?  your vitamins?  your glasses?  dentures?  The first time my grandkids came over, I brought them directly in my bedroom and showed it to them, explained how it helped me, let them touch it, and tried it on for them and turned on the air, so they could get a good laugh with me, not at me.  

It's truly a great conversation starter as well.  do you have any idea how many of your friends and family members may also be suffering with this and not even know it?  You may be saving someone from having a heart attack, or from having high blood pressure just by talking about it.  What person wouldn't absolutely admire the fact that you have taken charge of your treatment and have become so knowledgable about it.

Then, the spouse thing....I thought that too... but there is no bigger supporter than my hubby.  Held my hand through claustrophobic episodes, helped me adjust mask after mask.  Tried to help me rig them to make them fit better...  Now that I am used to the silly thing,  I don't even put it on until I am truly ready to lie down and go to sleep.  So, it doesn't affect anything else.  You are still you.


_________________
ResMed Auto Set II w/hi4 Pressure 9 - 20 EPR at 3 SleepWeaver, Mirage Micro, Liberty, FitLlife
Orig AHI 30.4 RDI 36 & RLS/PLMB