Wow.  

To this thread, all I have to add is BLESS THE INVISIBLE LEPRECHAUNS FOR CPAP!!!!  

Only through the grace of our magical little friends will you find true sleep.  

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The problem is, that there is no quick fix, no pill, no surgery that will fix OSA in everyone.  There is one treatment that will. CPAP

Mike this comment is incorrect.  Restated you are saying these is one treatment that will fix OSA and its CPAP.  CPAP does not FIX OSA, it eliminates the negative effects by forcing air through pressure down your airway.  A FIX implies that the anatomical defect causing the underlying problem has been corrected.  That is NOT TRUE.  The only way to fix an anatomical defect would be surgery.  So while you dont believe the UPPP surgery fixes the problem the studies do seem to indicate that in at least 33% of patients it worked.  The quick fix is CPAP since it does not treat the underlying casue of the problem.

Wouldnt you like to be the lucky 33% of patients that the surgery worked for ?  I know I might take the chance to never have to use CPAP again but for me 33 or even 50% is not high enough for me personally to do the surgery.  I do hope that whoever endures the horrors of going under the knife gets as much of a posative result as possible.  For me, I will use CPAP and hope for improvements in surgical technology and hope that they find something eventually that has a 90% success rate.  But how do you know that those that have had this surgery get 100% relief ?  You don't because you are not the one that had the surgery.

jbandes wrote:

Quote:

The problem is, that there is no quick fix, no pill, no surgery that will fix OSA in everyone.  There is one treatment that will. CPAP

Mike this comment is incorrect.  Restated you are saying these is one treatment that will fix OSA and its CPAP.  CPAP does not FIX OSA, it eliminates the negative effects by forcing air through pressure down your airway.  A FIX implies that the anatomical defect causing the underlying problem has been corrected.  That is NOT TRUE.  The only way to fix an anatomical defect would be surgery.  So while you dont believe the UPPP surgery fixes the problem the studies do seem to indicate that in at least 33% of patients it worked.  The quick fix is CPAP since it does not treat the underlying casue of the problem.

Wouldnt you like to be the lucky 33% of patients that the surgery worked for ?  I know I might take the chance to never have to use CPAP again but for me 33 or even 50% is not high enough for me personally to do the surgery.  I do hope that whoever endures the horrors of going under the knife gets as much of a posative result as possible.  For me, I will use CPAP and hope for improvements in surgical technology and hope that they find something eventually that has a 90% success rate.  But how do you know that those that have had this surgery get 100% relief ?  You don't because you are not the one that had the surgery.

I won't get into a semantics argument.  CPAP when used correctly resolves Apnea.


As to the high risk low return of surgery, no I do not agree nor does the American Sleep Apnea Association.  There are MANY studies that show that no where near 100% get relief.  (No idea where that number came from?)  There are many studies that show that you will get a 50% reduction in AHI.  Period.  Nothing better.  So AHI > 12 and you are looking at some other form of treatment IN ADDITION to the surgery to get treated according to current guidelines.  I do know that we have NEVER had anyone come and say that after 5 years their UPPP is still going strong and that they don't need any other treatment.  (Nor are there ANY studies showing that)  

Its always good to hope, however, when offering assistance to folks with OSA, a 1 in 3 chance of having improvement, for a short period of time is NOT something we will recommend vs a therapy that when used, can resolve the obstruction.  But of course if you like playing the odds, have at it.  More than likely what you will win is a very limited success, with a lot of pain, and a CPAP in your future anyway.

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Its always good to hope, however, when offering assistance to folks with OSA, a 1 in 3 chance of having improvement, for a short period of time is NOT something we will recommend vs a therapy that when used, can resolve the obstruction.  But of course if you like playing the odds, have at it.  More than likely what you will win is a very limited success, with a lot of pain, and a CPAP in your future anyway.

I agree with you Michael which is why I have decided against the surgery myself but I am open minded enough to know that I cant speak about the 33% that claim the surgery was a success since I am not the one that had it.  Its not however semantics to point out that CPAP is not a cure it is a treatment. The only thing that could offer a cure would be surgery.  I would agree with you however that the current research stating numbers of between 33 and 55% is not high enough for me to undergo the surgery.  Unlike you however I am not willing to state categorically that no surgery is currently 100% effective.  I feel confidently that there are many that would tell you that the surgery was in fact 100% effective.  In fact, I have a friend that had the surgery and is not on CPAP and says he is cured.  I dont know enough about his prior condition to say for sure that he is cured but I am confident that if he believes that he is 100% cured that his perception of a cure is wonderful even if ultimately it is untrue or inaccurate he must be substantially better than he was and his perception that he is 100% cured is encouraging

Yes, we can continue to hope for a cure to this miserable condition.  I also hope that I will tolerate the CPAP well and will not continue to go through life tired and living in a perpetual fog.

[quote="jbandes"]

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In fact, I have a friend that had the surgery and is not on CPAP and says he is cured.  I dont know enough about his prior condition to say for sure that he is cured but I am confident that if he believes that he is 100% cured that his perception of a cure is wonderful even if ultimately it is untrue or inaccurate he must be substantially better than he was and his perception that he is 100% cured is encouraging.

Perception is not everything.  Sorry you can not say that despite many studies to the contrary that they are wrong and he is right because he feels better.  Prove it with a sleep study.  This is something that folks that have surgery refuse to do most of the time, because what they don't know can't hurt them.  Right?  Wrong.  


As this thread as devolved into do what feels good, versus what is considered effective treatment.  It is now locked.