I am uninsured and I am pretty sure I have sleep apnea.  Ever since a really bad case of bronchitis (almost pnemonia) over a year ago I have been feeling constantly tired.  I can sleep 12 hours and still feel tired, and I keep waking up with head aches and a dry mouth.  I rarely snore (unless I'm drunk) but my girlfriend told me that I sometimes make a choking sound and then gasp for air.  I also have woken up a couple times gasping for air and with night sweats.

Since sleep studies are so expensive, I was considering just buying a CPAP machine and seeing if it helps.  If it doesn't help then I guess I could sell the machine second hand.  Is there any particular reason that this is a bad idea?

Obviously the best option is to get insurance, and get a proper Sleep test done.

If that is not possible, then your next best bet is to purchase an AutoPap machine. An AutoPap machine will increase or decrease the pressure within a set range (min 4, max 20), to find the ideal pressure for you. But an AutoPap machine is more expensive, and for some people, can cause central apneas to occur. I myself, do far better on straight CPAP than an AutoPap machine.

If an AutoPap machine is out of your price range, then you should purchase a CPAP machine that has full data capability. YOu should also purchase a smart card reader that connects to your PC, and the software to analyze your Sleep Data. With this software, you'll be able to see how well you slept. The # of Apneas and # of Hyponeas are recorded by the Machine, as well as the Leak rate, and Vibratory snoring. And also the amount of Sleep you had. All of this date is viewable thorugh the software.

Including a mask, you can expect to pay a total of about 600-700 dollars. The Cpap Machine with full-data probably costs around 300-400. The mask is about 100 bucks. Then you add in the Software + Smart Card read, and that's another 200. So 600 - 700 dollars. But you might be able to get them cheaper.


_________________
5'9 234lbs 37 years Old Male
Original Sleep Study: AHI = 30

Owner of Remstar Auto A Flex M series
ResMed Ultra Mirage Full Face Mask
Viewer 1.0 Software, Smartcard Reader
Integrated Heater/humidifier
Prescribed setting: 7-10 Cm

Your local teaching hospital may do charitable sleep studies. If not, you may want to check www.awakeinamerica.org which can provide donated equipment and an at home sleep study.  They have applications online.

Check out a free clinic. They may be partnered with a sleep lab.

A sleep study is very important...if you try to self treat you will have no idea if your desaturate, if you have PLMD, undetected heart conditions, if the machine will cause pulmonary hypertension, Tension Pneumothorax, central apneas, mixed apnea, sleep architecture, % in those stages, other sleep disorders and so on.

It is not easy to buy a machine..you need a script to get it..unless you find somone selling a new one off the back of a truck or an individual who happened upon an extra one...could even be that the person using it had it for only very a short time and died.  Yuck, I would not want that one!

I urge you to check out the resources above and any others that you can find.  Bottom line, it is your life...may be worth trying to work out a payment deal with the Dr and the lab...including reduced fees.  If there is a will there is a way...just like when you have needed a car or wanted to go on a vacation.  I do know that some of the nationwide DME's will work with you on the equipment.  Not meaing they will sell you the stuff without dr's script..but with the sleep study and script done they will help you get the equipment.


_________________

CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO~ http://tinyurl.com/69q52a

BiPAP Auto M 13/8 Mirage Nasal Swift. 20 years+ undx'd. RLS/PLMD, Hypersomnia & more.

baloney wrote:

I am uninsured and I am pretty sure I have sleep apnea.  Ever since a really bad case of bronchitis (almost pnemonia) over a year ago I have been feeling constantly tired.  I can sleep 12 hours and still feel tired, and I keep waking up with head aches and a dry mouth.  I rarely snore (unless I'm drunk) but my girlfriend told me that I sometimes make a choking sound and then gasp for air.  I also have woken up a couple times gasping for air and with night sweats.

Since sleep studies are so expensive, I was considering just buying a CPAP machine and seeing if it helps.  If it doesn't help then I guess I could sell the machine second hand.  Is there any particular reason that this is a bad idea?

This is NOT a good idea. You really don't know what is wrong with you and attempts to self medicate an undiagnosed condition is not smart.

CPAP is a prescription item, it is not a one size fits all.

If you do have apnoea, it could be Obstructive, Central or Mixed...........if it's Central then CPAP or APAP will be of no benefit. You could have hypothyroidism, congestive heart failure or any one of numerous conditions that display similar symptoms.

Finally, getting rid of a second hand machine is not easy...........getting one (of any type) without a prescription SHOULD be impossible.

As the others have suggested, try and get a proper diagnosis first.

Daniel.


_________________
The untreated Sleep Apnoea sufferer died quietly in his sleep.......
Unlike his three passengers who died screaming !!!!!!

(Anon)

Daniel wrote:

This is NOT a good idea. You really don't know what is wrong with you and attempts to self medicate an undiagnosed condition is not smart.

CPAP is a prescription item, it is not a one size fits all.

If you do have apnoea, it could be Obstructive, Central or Mixed...........if it's Central then CPAP or APAP will be of no benefit. You could have hypothyroidism, congestive heart failure or any one of numerous conditions that display similar symptoms.

Finally, getting rid of a second hand machine is not easy...........getting one (of any type) without a prescription SHOULD be impossible.

As the others have suggested, try and get a proper diagnosis first.

Daniel.

Hi Daniel,

I agree with all of you, that everyone should have a proper diagnosis before treatment with xPAP.

But I’m in a little dilemma here.

In Denmark the full PSG is also the “gold standard”, but in fact they only use it for about 5% of people with a suspected SA.

In fact the standard here is something called CRM or “partial channel poly (somno) graphy” or polygraphy, or just “partial PSG”.

This it’s done by an in-home sleep study for one night.

This study is without EEG, so as I understand it, this is only for uncomplicated SA. They don’t find other conditions than obstructive apnea / hypopneas?

The reason for this standard is that the public medical system wants to find and treat the entire people with SA as quick as possible (They also use a lot of resources to tell the primary doctors about SA). They assume that 95% of people with untreated SA will be given a proper treatment at this way. We all know that there are so many untreated people with SA, that the “system” doesn’t have the resources to give all a full PSG.

After this sleep study the sleep doctor read the data from the in-home sleep study into a computer program (in fact it is a technician that’s doing this) and your diagnoses come out on a screen. You will get it on paper afterwards.

I think this procedure is very similar to the procedure done with the data card from the CPAP machine (especially the APAP machine), but only with some further data about desaturations and pulse, and what side you are lying on.

The standard treatment / equipments here is an APAP machine.

Even if you have a private insurance the procedure is the same.

Only if there is some obvious reason they initially will give you a full PSG sleep study.

There is an international organization of public medical services (with headquarter in Sweden) that have confirmed this way to do it, so more and more countries will use this “standard”.

And here is my dilemma:

I also was sure, that I had Sleep Apnea before my in-home study. It took only 2 days from my appointment with the sleep center to I was on an APAP. (Here all of it's for free)

I had a follow up consultation after 2 weeks (where they read my data card), and they told me that I was well treated.

To day I has the feeling of that, if I at this point has had the APAP machine at ones, the result would be the same.

I don’t know anything about my sleep stages a so on.

So with the words of Shakespeare “To be or not to be” treated I don’t think an APAP machine will hurt, but IF you have SA it maybe would help a lot.

PS. I’m waiting for a full PSG within 2 months (that’s because of some complications with my inner ear) I look forward to this study.

Henning



Last edited by Henning on Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

Henning wrote:

Daniel wrote:

This is NOT a good idea. You really don't know what is wrong with you and attempts to self medicate an undiagnosed condition is not smart.

CPAP is a prescription item, it is not a one size fits all.

If you do have apnoea, it could be Obstructive, Central or Mixed...........if it's Central then CPAP or APAP will be of no benefit. You could have hypothyroidism, congestive heart failure or any one of numerous conditions that display similar symptoms.

Finally, getting rid of a second hand machine is not easy...........getting one (of any type) without a prescription SHOULD be impossible.

As the others have suggested, try and get a proper diagnosis first.

Daniel.

Hi Daniel,

I agree with all of you, that everyone should have a proper diagnosis before treatment with xPAP.

But I’m in a little dilemma here.

In Denmark the full PSG is also the “gold standard”, but in fact they only use it for about 5% of people with a suspected SA.

In fact the standard here is something called CRM or “partial channel poly (somno) graphy” or polygraphy, or just “partial PSG”.

This it’s done by an in-home sleep study for one night.

This study is without EEG, so as I understand it, this is only for uncomplicated SA. They don’t find other conditions than obstructive apnea / hypopneas?

The reason for this standard is that the public medical system wants to find and treat the entire people with SA as quick as possible (They also use a lot of resources to tell the primary doctors about SA). They assume that 95% of people with untreated SA will be given a proper treatment at this way. We all know that there are so many untreated people with SA, that the “system” doesn’t have the resources to give all a full PSG.

After this sleep study the sleep doctor read the data from the in-home sleep study into a computer program (in fact it is a technician that’s doing this) and your diagnoses come out on a screen. You will get it on paper afterwards.

I think this procedure is very similar to the procedure done with the data card from the CPAP machine (especially the APAP machine), but only with some further data about desaturations and pulse, and what side you are lying on.

The standard treatment / equipments here is an APAP machine.

Even if you have a private insurance the procedure is the same.

Only if there is some obvious reason they initially will give you a full PSG sleep study.

There is an international organization of public medical services (with headquarter in Sweden) that have confirmed this way to do it, so more and more countries will use this “standard”.

And here is my dilemma:

I also was sure, that I had Sleep Apnea before my in-home study. It took only 2 days from my appointment with the sleep center to I was on an APAP. (Here all of it's for free)

I had a follow up consultation after 2 weeks (where they read my data card), and they told me that I was well treated.

At this point I have the feeling of, that if I had the APAP machine at once the result would be the same.

I don’t know anything about my sleep stages a so on.

So with the words of Shakespeare “To be or not to be” treated I don’t think an APAP machine will hurt, but IF you have SA it maybe would help a lot.

PS. I’m waiting for a full PSG within 2 months (that’s because of some complications with my inner ear) I would see forward to this study.

Henning

Henning,

The 'Domicilliary Home Study' is available in Ireland also........but at the moment is not covered by health insurers.

At present a study is being carried out (in Dublin) in an effort to put a firm case together for its use.

Being involved with a patient advocacy and support group, the idea of clearing out the very long waiting lists is very attractive ans this procedure is being suggested..........nothing formal yet. However we would not be happy if it became the accepted diagnostic tool. We are also involved in discussions with various hospitals and the Health Service to increase diagnostic throughput ASAP.

It is being suggested for use on those who (following consultation with a sleep specialist) are deemed to be 'open and shut cases'........who do not have other obvious conditions.

Still at the drawing board stage, but I suspect that it will be introduced in the next few years in an effort to get sufferers on XPAP, ASAP, and to then follow up with the full 34 channel polysomnogram.

IMHO, all countries will soon see some major changes in the way diagnosis is carried out.

Daniel.


_________________
The untreated Sleep Apnoea sufferer died quietly in his sleep.......
Unlike his three passengers who died screaming !!!!!!

(Anon)

Daniel wrote:

Henning,

The 'Domicilliary Home Study' is available in Ireland also........but at the moment is not covered by health insurers.

At present a study is being carried out (in Dublin) in an effort to put a firm case together for its use.

Being involved with a patient advocacy and support group, the idea of clearing out the very long waiting lists is very attractive ans this procedure is being suggested..........nothing formal yet. However we would not be happy if it became the accepted diagnostic tool. We are also involved in discussions with various hospitals and the Health Service to increase diagnostic throughput ASAP.

It is being suggested for use on those who (following consultation with a sleep specialist) are deemed to be 'open and shut cases'........who do not have other obvious conditions.

Still at the drawing board stage, but I suspect that it will be introduced in the next few years in an effort to get sufferers on XPAP, ASAP, and to then follow up with the full 34 channel polysomnogram.

IMHO, all countries will soon see some major changes in the way diagnosis is carried out.

Daniel.

Hi Daniel,

I think our system in many ways is good. If we assume that it’s correct that the 95% of SA Sufferers have uncomplicated SA, then I think we really get value for money.

We never had found and treated so many new SA patients as today. Most of the primary doctors have a lot of attention on this suffering, and even most of the public knows about SA.

So instead of having problems with 95% of undiagnosed SA Sufferers, then I think we within a few years only will have problems with the remaining 5% who sufferers with more complicated SA.

This is an overall consideration.

Of course that I, as an SA sufferer don’t fully agree with it – especially because I for 2 years had some problems I didn’t know had something to do with SA. Something I had to find out by myself.

I forgot to mentioned, that we every year has a follow up consultation, where they (the technicians) download and read our data card, and we got a new mask, hose and so on. We can also book a consultation with a sleep doctor. In fact we always can book a consultation whith a sleep doctor, if we have something special to talk with him about.

But they only have focus on the AHI. I think that if our system should be really good, that it’s here they should do something better. They have to educate these technicians better, and they should ask more questions about health problems and so on.

And if there are any problems they should prescribe a full PSG.

Henning

Most insurance policies in the US allow for a mask every 3 to 6 months...  I kept using my first mask for close to 3 years without any problems... though a new one, when I did get it was mor comfortable due to the elasticity of it.


_________________

CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO~ http://tinyurl.com/69q52a

BiPAP Auto M 13/8 Mirage Nasal Swift. 20 years+ undx'd. RLS/PLMD, Hypersomnia & more.

Mrs Rip Van Winkle wrote:

Most insurance policies in the US allow for a mask every 3 to 6 months...  I kept using my first mask for close to 3 years without any problems... though a new one, when I did get it was mor comfortable due to the elasticity of it.

Hi Mrs. RVW,

If we have a private insurance here it’s not like in the US. The insurance is only used for an acute treatment and after a while the public medical care is taking over.

There are less than 20% of people here that has a medical insurance, mostly people like me as a self-employed person.

That’s because of our public treatment guaranty of 1 month.

Therefore our insurance is very cheap, I pay about $ 3-400 a year.

I mentioned this 1 year follow up consultation. This is an automatically summons from the sleep center. But we always can make an appointment, if we need so.

We can also get a new mask. In the past year I have got 3 different masks. If we want to try another mask, then we just get it. I also had some problems with my humidifier. I just call the sleep center, and they send me a new one.

So in that way our system is very good.

I hope you’re still standing on your feet.

We also have read and heard about “Fay”, but here in the “Cold North”, we don’t have that kind of weather.

Henning