Good advice...thanks


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Good luck...

My husband recently completed a sleep study, had 86 apneas during the study and 36 resp. arousals and did NOT tolerate the CPAP well at all during the study.  His levels demonstrate improvement but his experience of it was he was awake during the entire cpap procedure (he wasn't but he was very disrupted) and in the Summary they stated he said he wouldn't use the cpap for therapy.

SO, I am investigating the dental options.

He needs to see his primary Dr. before going in any direction but just doing the ground work here.

I find it interesting that right before he drops in to the apnea episodes, he most of the time will click his jaw together several times.  When I hear that sound, I know he will stop breathing within seconds and the cycle begins.  To me, this indicates a jaw issue going on.  But his sleep study didn't mention anything about this.  Anyone have any ideas/info on this symptom?

Also, what would be the best way to find a dentist in our area?  We live in the Phoenix Arizona area--tempe.  Any help greatly appreciated.  I'm very worried about him!  Oh and he's 46 and not overweight at all (slender/average build).

katiepolo wrote:

My husband recently completed a sleep study, had 86 apneas during the study and 36 resp. arousals and did NOT tolerate the CPAP well at all during the study.  His levels demonstrate improvement but his experience of it was he was awake during the entire cpap procedure (he wasn't but he was very disrupted) and in the Summary they stated he said he wouldn't use the cpap for therapy.

Welcome Katie!

Did you husband tell you why he couldn't tolerate the mask?  For what its worth I felt like I slept horrible in the sleep lab too...I think most of us did, being such a bizarre foreign environment.  I did MUCH better at home in my own bed.  

I just wonder if they stated what they said in the report because THEY thought he couldnt use cpap...or because he TOLD them he wouldn't use cpap.

BarryKaraoke wrote:

katiepolo wrote:

My husband recently completed a sleep study, had 86 apneas during the study and 36 resp. arousals and did NOT tolerate the CPAP well at all during the study.  His levels demonstrate improvement but his experience of it was he was awake during the entire cpap procedure (he wasn't but he was very disrupted) and in the Summary they stated he said he wouldn't use the cpap for therapy.

Welcome Katie!

Did you husband tell you why he couldn't tolerate the mask?  For what its worth I felt like I slept horrible in the sleep lab too...I think most of us did, being such a bizarre foreign environment.  I did MUCH better at home in my own bed.  

I just wonder if they stated what they said in the report because THEY thought he couldnt use cpap...or because he TOLD them he wouldn't use cpap.

Hi Barry..thanks for the welcome!

The thing is my hubby always thinks he sleeps ok.  So when they asked him if he thought he slept during the study he said "yes I slept through the night except for when they put the mask on my face".  It's a perception thing because he had 36 arousals just from breathing through the night.  But he never thinks he sleeps poorly even when I wake him up throughout the night to get him to breathe.  (arrrgh!)  He told them he didn't tolerate it well and wouldn't use it.  He described it as cold air being forced in to his lungs and he couldn't breathe properly.  They adjusted it,heated it but he still felt very uncomfortable (but he did sleep for an hour w/ it on as we could see it on the readings, what little we could make hide or hair of, on the report).  

Hope I answered your questions.  :)  Have you heard of that teeth tapping thing related to obstructive apnea?  Is that some sort of clue?

Hello Katie,

Unfortunately, many sleep techs are hesitant to record any bruxism during a sleep study, and this has always bothered me. Bruxism is extremely common in OSA victims, but there are varying theories on the causal relationship. If he indeed does this prior to the apneic event, he is most likely attempting to flex his pharyngeal muscles to get a breath during an obstructive cycle. This usually happens after the apneic event, but your husband may be unique in this timing.

As far as locating a dentist in Tempe, I believe that is where Dr. Allan Bernstein practices.


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Kent Smith DDS

Katie...

I'm not too familiar with the teeth thing.  My son, who also has OSA, used to "grind" his teeth.  But now treated with a CPAP, he does not.

As far as getting your husband to accept OSA and a CPAP...maybe give him some literature to read about the disease and challenge him to a two week trial period [for you] and see if that changes.  In my case, I felt that I slept fine and was not affected by OSA.  That was until I answered the questionaire much differently than my wife and I did the trial period thing....never knew how tired I actually was and didn't realize I could feel much better and brighter!!

I don't know how old you guys are or if you have kids...but untreated [and I see this in my job as a fireman] his health will decline and he will not be around to watch the kids grow up.  My kids tell me I am a much nicer person to be  around now and my general health, although good before, is much improved after CPAP/OSA treatment.

Being stubborn and in denial is part of the disease.  Be patient, but firm!!


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Good luck...

maybe he can try the nasal pillows and chin strap if he is a mouth breather; some people feel very confortable with them, and i am one of them; feeling so much better with nasal pillows than with full face mask; as it was adviced before, you should encourage him to read some literature about sleep apnea, this is not a disease that should be just left alone, but treated.

I only have one thing to say about chin-straps, etc.

Try this test: Clamp your jaw shut, relax your lips and blow out through them. That's right, the chin strap fixes nothing.

  Either tape you mouth shut using high adhesive tape (not recommended) or use some other device that will cover the mouth and equalize the CPAP pressure there.

I use a full-face mask. It doesn't cover the "full face", just the nose and mouth. However, It will ensure that I am not duped into any non-working measures. After all, the CPAP isn't just used for looks and comfort! A good seal is paramount! In my case, I couldn't sleep without it. I've tried. It's impossible.  

Hey if you only want to stop the snoring on your back maybe you just need the tennis ball sewes to pj back neck lol, I was diagnosed as having hyponeas, and a low breather, my doctor mentioned a dental devise, which I could not understand how that was going to help me breath better, he said it thrust my jaw forward to open airway, seems like that wouldnt stop my low breathing. I found a site that has a cheap devise for stregthening lungs for the copd patient, athlete etc, I may try it what the heck, having major problems due to cpap, and bad bad allergies, I have to take off in few hours as I get stuffed up and cant breath. Even using full mask, I have  humidifier also, which I hate I cant breath hot air makes it worse, why are they heated geez.

But the kick is I drive school bus I cant work till this is worked out, I am so upset, I get very good pay, benefits, pension I cannot lose the job or I am done. No other training, now this, I am sick, when I try a new mask they say ins. will give problem and only let you try one at a time. when from nasal/ to nose mask to full mask still problems. What bothers me too is I read people with copd, which my doc indicated I maybe getting, is a no no with cpap but docter at sleep center doesnt even say anything about that.  
I also dont feel anybetter when I can tolerate more hours I feel worse.  And for the icing on the cake, I read in your forum about glaucoma, which my eye docter thinks I have beginnings of. No less I read allergy meds can cause problems too with that, Now I just feel sick about it all. I cant win. I hate this machine, it makes me feel claustorphobic once I have it on awhile. I have been trying this 3 months almost now.

I sure wish there was another way.
Thanks, Deb

I certainly understand CPAP being very hard to get used to.

It is right now the best possible therapy to keep you and your bus passengers alive. (I used to get my best sleep behind the wheel before I used CPAP for about a yr)

Here are some tricks I learned along the way;
    
I put two drops of grapefruit seed extract into my humidifier water each night. I don't have any problems with sinus no more. You can get it at any health food store like Organic Planet. I too have a few allergies, particularly to particulates like dust. I clean my filter out at least once a week. However, when using my humidifier, I don't turn it up very high, just to medium and adjust for temp. so that it isn't too too dry. I also have type II diabetes, along with burning feet, so I keep it very cold in the bedroom. The hose used to get hooked up on stuff and unseat my mask. I took off the headboard, keep a 3" space between my bed and the wall, and keep my pillow a bit low so that the hose can free float.
My wife put a picture on the ceiling for when I used to wake up frustrated. It gave me something to focus on. I used to get claustrophobia, but just dreamed of scuba diving or flying a jet fighter, where you must have supplied air. It worked fairly well for me.

I have learned to not eat late at night. I have learned a lot of different things. If you have any specific problems with it, please ask. Someone on here will have gone through it and can point you in the right direction.

Remember that inflammation of the body can cause all of these things and more as well. I am saving up to see an alternative therapy doctor (MD) that can hopefully help with this. I have realized that every step is up to me alone to take.

I have kind of been where you are now. It really sux for quite awhile, but I had to learn patience. I had to learn a lot of things. It's hard, but it's worth it. It gives you your life back.
  God Bless.

WrongwayMan wrote:

I certainly understand CPAP being very hard to get used to.

It is right now the best possible therapy to keep you and your bus passengers alive. (I used to get my best sleep behind the wheel before I used CPAP for about a yr)

Here are some tricks I learned along the way;
    
I put two drops of grapefruit seed extract into my humidifier water each night. I don't have any problems with sinus no more. You can get it at any health food store like Organic Planet. I too have a few allergies, particularly to particulates like dust. I clean my filter out at least once a week. However, when using my humidifier, I don't turn it up very high, just to medium and adjust for temp. so that it isn't too too dry. I also have type II diabetes, along with burning feet, so I keep it very cold in the bedroom. The hose used to get hooked up on stuff and unseat my mask. I took off the headboard, keep a 3" space between my bed and the wall, and keep my pillow a bit low so that the hose can free float.
My wife put a picture on the ceiling for when I used to wake up frustrated. It gave me something to focus on. I used to get claustrophobia, but just dreamed of scuba diving or flying a jet fighter, where you must have supplied air. It worked fairly well for me.

I have learned to not eat late at night. I have learned a lot of different things. If you have any specific problems with it, please ask. Someone on here will have gone through it and can point you in the right direction.

Remember that inflammation of the body can cause all of these things and more as well. I am saving up to see an alternative therapy doctor (MD) that can hopefully help with this. I have realized that every step is up to me alone to take.

I have kind of been where you are now. It really sux for quite awhile, but I had to learn patience. I had to learn a lot of things. It's hard, but it's worth it. It gives you your life back.
  God Bless.

I sure appreciate the grapefruit extract tip, going to get some today to try, yes I do use humidifier on lowest if possible, which is usually ok, I did have the tube up above me but it still annoys me, I find since I am a side sleeper, that putting it under my arm from my waist, so I can put my hands under or near my chin like I always sleep I am fairly ok with that, problem mostly is I get a new mask it fits and seems great for a few days, then seems to get out of shape, they make these things for men the headgear, its rediculous that I cannot get a good fit and leave it alone, but I adjust it, then when I turn on side it pulls one way makes me crazy. But why does it feel ok for a few days, do the masks break down that fast?, if I adjust it not to move at all it is way too tight, I am not having mask print on my face all day, plus it makes my sinus hurt, I see doctor on Monday, he is gonna be frustrated that I want another type mask, I saw one called THE MIRAGE VISTA hoping it might aleviate the leaking by nose, which does not happen all the time, but the stupid head rest part and nose adjustment seems such a pain in butt, always changing when I turn over, drives me crazy until Ijust want to scream or cry. Hard to cry into a mask I tell you. this othe mask looks like it has the pull adjustment instead of velcro which you cant always get same. They are gonna want to shoot me at docs. What makes me the maddest is how they act like I'm the only one with such adjustment problems. I know thats not true. Most people out there, dont have to have it to keep their job, and they just stop using it, I cant do that I have no choice and that is what frustrates me the most I think, that it's not working for me and I have to wear it for life.
Thanks for your suggestions, Deb
I only get the claustrophobic feeling when the air seems to lessen, which is usually cause I am stuffed up, sometimes I wonder if its the machine not me, seems air flow is less sometimes. Thanks

The mask leakage is a problem for EVERYONE at first. There are plenty of fears, worries, embarrassments, and a huge learning curve, which the "doctor" will not discuss. A support group of seasoned CPAP users is what you need. I think you may have found it here. My machine is the same machine I started with. It is set at 14.5 mL/H2O and has always been. I have only had one home sleep study ever and NO support except for my loving wife and an APNEA forum somewhat like this one.
  My machine is not variable. It is at 14.5 unless the power goes out. I tried a variable one, but it wasn't responsive enough. It was like torture. I just wasn't getting enough air to keep my blood oxygenation level up there. There are different things that I had to go through as well. When your lungs and diaphragm get muscled up to force the pressurized air back out, for example. When that is completed, I found it very hard to breathe IN when not hooked up. This is a serious side effect, but the "doctors" don't seem to give two squirts.

The key is to make very slight adjustments. The mask straps DO stretch out. After a few days, they will need to be tightened a bit, but not too much. I must sleep on my side or my apnea takes over and I cannot breathe. I position my mask so that the side of it that is closer to the ceiling is tighter. This is accomplished by pulling the mask off my face and moving it a very tiny bit toward the pillow side of my face, without slipping the straps. This increases the tension of the elastic straps on that side. With the hose above the mask, it keeps it from pulling it away from my odd-shaped nose at the top and sides. The Mirage Vista is my next mask...whenever I can afford it. We do NOT have medical coverage for these things in Canada, except for private insurance, which sometimes doesn't cover these things.

Anyway; All this is to say this to you: I understand your horrible experiences with CPAP. I have certainly been there. This is the thing though. You will get it all sorted out and you will perfect different methods that work for you. Then, eventually, it becomes a very small struggle instead of a huge one.

  I have two points to make to wrap this rant up. (1) pills have serious side effects. (2) inflammation of the body due to all the chemicals we ingest in processed foods, dirty habits, etc. causes sleep apnea. I know, the doctors "do not know what causes it"...just another medical irresponsibility.
  Take care. Feel free to ask me anything.